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16 February 2011 @ 05:06 pm
Lots of abortion thingies recently  

Le sigh.

I did see the quote from Justin Beiber today... what strikes me most of all is the fact that his stance on abortion is less hypocritical and more principled than the stance of the various GOP bills that have been popping into the legislative body recently.

I'm about ten years pro-choice now.

I always understood and had a certain amount of respect for the viewpoint that a fetus is a baby, and that therefore abortion is a homicide.  But the official stance of the Republican bloc, with its emphasis on just exactly what kind of rape merits an abortion, is despicable.  If you're working from the standpoint of protecting infants, then you can't turn around and say that only the children born of rape deserve to die.  Putting rape exclusions into these laws appears merciful from a glance, but all it really does is reveal the underlying motive:  to punish citizens for HSWF (having sex while female).  To use babies punitively.  This is not a principled stance, it's a vindictive one.

Either be pro-choice or pro-life, but pick your side based on who you want to save, not who you want to burn.

Justin, while phrasing his reasons badly, has a more defensible position than half the country.
sleepygoof8784: Morganan Worriorsleepygoof8784 on February 16th, 2011 11:18 pm (UTC)
AMEN to this. I agree with this so very very much. And this "To use babies punitively. This is not a principled stance, it's a vindictive one." So well expressed.

Basically I agree with you 100% and you articulate so well here what I've not been able to explain very well to other people, so thank you for that. :D
ryokoturdburgler on February 16th, 2011 11:37 pm (UTC)
He has been saying a lot of things lately, hasn't he?
A. Askewanivad on February 16th, 2011 11:54 pm (UTC)
"If you're working from the standpoint of protecting infants, then you can't turn around and say that only the children born of rape deserve to die."

yeah, that's true; my philosophy prof once pointed that out too, and it was actually the first time I'd heard of it from that angle.

Although I'd have to say that I somewhat support the rape exclusion (and other exclusions, such as cases where the mother's health is at risk) principle (I'm sort of simultaneously pro-life and pro-choice: I'd prefer it if people didn't abort, but I respect that it's the choice of the person actually affected and realise that in a similar situation I might not choose to have the kid).

My stance on abortion has changed widely through time; I started out strongly pro-life with exceptions for things like rape, but it was never in a gendered context. I never even realised that there were people who thought of it that way, perhaps because I was brought up in a culture whereby sex outside of marriage was frowned upon more or less equally regardless of whether the perpetrator was male or female.

I also considered unwanted pregnancy as a punishment for both halves of the couple for Having Unprotected Sex, regardless of their sex (I realised that males would not have to bear the physical burden of pregnancy, but I lived in an idealistic mindset in which the fathers would be forced to sufficiently make up for it in other ways if the baby was carried to term). So for me my stance wasn't so much to do with the life worth of a clump of cells, but more to do with irresponsible couples (both halves of them) seeing this as an easy way out and the creation of life as something flippant and trivial.

hence the rape exclusion, because in that case it would not be a matter of irresponsibility.

meanwhile my views would remain exactly the same if it were the male half who got pregnant instead, so.
Tigresstigress666 on February 17th, 2011 04:49 pm (UTC)
My biggest issue with the idea that people don't like abortion cause it's the easy way out, is it fair to the kid to cause him to be born to people who don't want him just cause they were irresponsible? And I strongly believe all of our problems end up coming down to the fact the human race is strongly overpopulated. So why add to the problem just cause you think epople are irresponsible? NOt to add you are forcing people who haven proven not to be responsible with something they should already know how to be very responsible to care for.
A Joyous Life (formerly Warrior Priest)a_joyous_life on February 17th, 2011 04:14 am (UTC)
Thanks for your insight on this. A beautiful, inside and out, woman I love was conceived in a brutal gang rape. I really seek to respect all the various positions on this topic, however I'm very grateful my friend was not aborted.
Xandre: Woodland Roadayakashi_fox on February 17th, 2011 04:41 pm (UTC)
You know, from a psychological standpoint, I would really rather be aborted than born of any form of rape. That would fuck me up for life.